Knowing the Lord (Mundaka Upaniṣad #17)

The infinite Lord can simultaneously permeate all material universes, while the infinitesimal soul can permeate just a single material body. Both the Lord and the soul appear as a reflection on matter

The Lord doesn't directly get in contact with the material energy, but at the same time, the whole material creation rests on Him. Everything depends on Him, but He doesn't depend on anything, therefore, He is the Supreme abode. He is situated in the spiritual sky and never comes in contact with matter, but at the same time, He becomes present through the reflection of His energy as Lord Garbhodakasayi Vishnu and Ksirodakasayi Vishnu, just as the sun reflected on a pot of water and then on the walls of a room.

The infinite Lord can simultaneously permeate all material universes, while the infinitesimal soul can permeate just a single material body. Just as the Lord is present in the material world as a reflection, the pure devotee can see himself also present as a reflection of his original consciousness, reflected in the three divisions of the false ego and permeating the body, senses, and mind.

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Text 3.1.8

na cakṣuṣā gṛhyate nāpi vācā

nānyair devais tapasā karmaṇā vā

jñāna-prasādena viśuddha-sattvas

tatas tu tam paśyate niṣkalam dhyāyamānaḥ

He can't be understood by the eyes, the speech, or by any other of the material senses. He can't be attained by austerity or pious actions. He can be seen only by the grace of transcendental knowledge, attained when one becomes completely free from the influence of passion and ignorance. Such a pure soul can see the Lord’s indivisible form inside his own heart by fixed meditation.

Commentary: The word "devaiḥ" in the verse refers to the senses, or more specifically the predominating deities of the senses, that allow us to see, hear, taste, etc. It is due to the help of these demigods that we can experience this world. However, they can't help us to understand the Lord, who is transcendental. The Lord can't be seen with the material eyes (na cakṣuṣā gṛhyate), or by any other of the material senses controlled by the different demigods (na anyaiḥ devaiḥ). The verse also mentions "na api vācā" (He can't be obtained by words).

Mayavadis hold the opinion that the Lord is inexpressible by words. This passage may appear to support it at first, but this is a topic explained in detail in the Vedanta-sutra, where Vyasadeva concludes: īkṣater nāśabdam. Brahman is not inexpressible in words, because it is seen He is vividly described in the scriptures.

When passages from the scriptures say that Brahman can't be described in words, the meaning is simply that the Lord can't be completely described, being unlimited. It's said that Lord Ananta is trying to describe the glories of the Lord for an unlimited span of time, using all of his unlimited mouths, yet because the glories of the Lord are unlimited, He never finishes. Words can describe the glories of the Lord only so far, but this doesn't mean they can't describe the Lord at all.

One example is that it is sometimes said that no one can see Mount Meru. This doesn't mean that no one sees the mountain (it's visible to most of the inhabitants of Jambūdvīpa, being situated right in the middle of the island) but no one can see the entire mountain at a time. Each sees just a part of it, according to his location, and part of the mountain is under the ground and thus not visible at all.

Without accepting the understanding that Brahman is not completely expressible by words or understandable by the mind, we can't properly understand scriptural statements such as "yato vaco nivartate" (words cannot describe Brahman), "aprapya manasa saha" (the mind cannot understand Brahman), and "yad vacanabhyuditam" (no one has the power to describe Brahman with words). These statements explain that Brahman cannot be completely described in words, but still, words can describe the Lord to a certain extent.

Because the Lord is absolute, His name, form, pastimes, etc. are all in the absolute plane. Therefore, words used to describe the Lord also become spiritualized and cease thus to be just ordinary material words, becoming fit to describe the Absolute Truth. All verses from the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam are thus considered to be spiritual, as good as Vedic mantras. Through these words, one may understand the Lord as far as his level of realization allows. Different persons may get different levels of understanding from hearing the same verses and it is rare to find someone who completely knows the Lord in truth, as indicated in the Bhagavad-gita: "Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth." (Bg 7.3). This is however not a defect in the scriptures, but the fruit of our own limitations.

The idea that Brahman can to some extent be described with words also does not contradict the fact that Brahman reveals Himself by His own wish. The Vedas are the incarnation of the Lord, and therefore non-different from Him. The Lord can thus reveal Himself to a sincere soul through the words of the scriptures.

To understand the Lord through the words of the scriptures, however, a certain qualification is necessary. One has to be situated in viśuddha-sattva, pure goodness, the purified state beyond the contamination of passion and ignorance. As long as we are under the influence of the lower modes, this influence covers our understanding, and as a result, we can't fully understand spiritual knowledge. Just as a person using glasses with red or blue lenses sees everything blue or red, one covered by the influence of rajas and tamas will see duality and contradictions in the words of the scriptures. To ascend to the platform of viśuddha-sattva, in turn, one has to be engaged in devotional service (even processes such as jñana and astanga-yoga are only effective when combined with bhakti), therefore devotional service is the only process that allows us to understand the scriptures and attain the Lord.

Text 3.1.9

eṣo ’ṇur ātmā cetasā veditavyo

yasmin prāṇaḥ pañcadhā samviveśa

prāṇaiś cittam sarvam otam prajānām

yasmin viśuddhe vibhavaty eṣa ātmā

The Lord is difficult to understand, but He can be realized by purified consciousness. The five vital airs take shelter in Him, as well as the mind and senses of all beings. When the Lord is pleased, the jiva becomes endowed with all spiritual qualities.

Commentary: Both Madhvācārya and Ranga Ramanuja interpret the word "ātmā" in this verse as the Supreme Lord. Following this interpretation, the Lord should be perceived by purified consciousness. The vital airs take shelter of Him, as well as the senses and the mind of all living beings. The Lord lives together with the soul inside the body and He becomes satisfied when the soul awakens to his original spiritual nature.

When the word ātmā is taken as meaning the Supreme Lord, the word aṇuḥ (subtle, minute) is used in the sense of the yogi meditating in the Lord in a small form inside his heart. The Lord can be simultaneously very big and very small. As Maha-Vishnu, He is so big that complete universes pass through the pores of his body, and as Paramatma, He can be so small that He enters even inside the atom. As Prabhupada mentions, to be very big is just partial perfection. To be perfect one should be able to also become very small. That's the case of the Lord. Another meaning of aṇuḥ is that the Lord is very subtle, being fully transcendental, as already defined in the previous verses.

The word "cittam" means consciousness, or mind, or consciousness perceived through the mind. In the third canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, Lord Kapila explains that the material consciousness of all beings is created by Maha-Vishnu at the beginning of the creation as a reflection of the original, spiritual consciousness of the soul. This original consciousness is almost pure, but it becomes contaminated by the three modes when expressed through the false ego, mind, and intelligence. Materialistic people think they are the body, but even when we hear we are not the body but the soul, we tend to think we are the consciousness. However, the consciousness we have now is still not "us", it is just the reflection of the original consciousness expressed through the contamination of the false ego, mind, and intelligence. It is still part of our material identity, just like the body. As souls, we are different from it, just like we are different from the gross body.

The real consciousness of the soul is Krsna Consciousness, the natural propensity to love and serve Krsna. This original, eternal, and intrinsical consciousness, can be perceived through the mind when it becomes sufficiently purified by the practice of hearing, chanting, remembering, etc. By meditating in the names, form, pastimes, etc. of the Lord, the mind becomes spiritualized, and through this spiritualized mind we can get in contact with our original spiritual consciousness, piercing through the covering of the false ego.

As Prabhupada mentions in his purport so SB 4.22.31:

"Our original consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. When this consciousness is misguided and one is put into the material atmosphere, which pollutes the original consciousness, one thinks that he is a product of the material elements. Thus one loses his real remembrance of his position as part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just as a man who sleeps forgets himself. In this way, when the activities of proper consciousness are checked, all the activities of the lost soul are performed on a false basis."

The Lord is eager to help us in this process but due to His respect for the free will of the soul, He helps only according to our desire. If we are sincere, however, He gives us all facilities. Being the eternal well-wisher of the soul, the Lord is very pleased when His eternal friend, the jiva, finally decides to return to Him, and He helps the soul to regain his original spiritual consciousness and become endowed with all auspicious spiritual qualities.

Srila Prabhupada offers an alternative interpretation of this verse in his purport to Bg 2.17, interpreting the word "ātmā" as referring to the individual soul. This reveals that, apart from describing the Lord, the verse also describes the characteristics of the soul, who lives with the Lord inside the heart. Both meanings are conveyed simultaneously in the words:

"In the Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad (3.1.9) the measurement of the atomic spirit soul is further explained:

eṣo ’ṇur ātmā cetasā veditavyo

yasmin prāṇaḥ pañcadhā samviveśa

prāṇaiś cittam sarvam otam prajānām

yasmin viśuddhe vibhavaty eṣa ātmā

"The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. This atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of air (prāṇa, apāna, vyāna, samāna and udāna), is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from the contamination of the five kinds of material air, its spiritual influence is exhibited."

The verses of the Bhagavad-gita, and verses of the scriptures in general, have unlimited meaning. The reason is that they describe different aspects of the unlimited Lord. All the verses of the scriptures are connected with Krsna and describe some of His transcendental aspects or attributes. Because each aspect of Krsna is unlimited, each verse contains unlimited meaning. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura once lectured for a whole month on a single verse of the Srimad Bhagavatam and famously declared that each of the verses could be similarly explained.

One example of this is that Brahma received only four verses from the Lord (the catur-sloki Bhagavatam) and to explain these four verses, the whole Srimad Bhagavatam was composed. On our planet, the Bhagavatam was revealed by Srila Vyasadeva with 18,000 verses, but on the celestial planets the Bhagavatam is much more extensive, and in other universes even more.

Different acaryas may thus give different meanings to the verses, or sometimes the same author may interpret the same verse in different ways in different contexts. These are not contradictions but just the presentation of different meanings present in the verse. However, to be able to perfectly reconcile the different meanings, one has to be in viśuddha-sattva, as already defined in the previous verse, otherwise one will see contradictions everywhere. We can also only understand if we have firm faith in the conclusions of the scriptures received from the spiritual master.

Text 3.1.10

yam yam lokam manasā samvibhāti

viśuddha-sattvaḥ kāmayate yāmś ca kāmān

tam tam lokam jayate tāmś ca kāmāms

tasmād ātma-jñam hy arcayed bhūti-kāmaḥ

A purified person attains whatever planet he desires to attain, and any attractive object he desires. Therefore, let one who desires prosperity worship the Supreme Lord, the knower of all.

Commentary: The word ātma-jñam is normally translated as "the knower of the self", in the sense of a self-realized soul, but in this context, it describes the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the knower of all (as indicated by Ranga Ramanuja), who should be worshiped by everyone, both the ones who have no material desires and the ones who are full of material desires. Srimad Bhagavatam 2.3.10 confirms this point:

akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā, mokṣa-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

tīvreṇa bhakti-yogena, yajeta puruṣam param

"A person who has broader intelligence, whether he be full of all material desire, without any material desire, or desiring liberation, must by all means worship the supreme whole, the Personality of Godhead."

Whatever one is full of material desires, or completely free from them, whatever one desires to be elevated to higher planets, to the impersonal brahmajyoti, or attain the supreme goal of love of Godhead, he should engage in the devotional service of the Lord, since the Lord is the ultimate giver of all benedictions. Even when one worships demigods, any blessing they may give can be granted only with the permission of the Lord. Since in any case, all blessings come from the Lord, one who is intelligent will worship only the Lord and no one else, regardless of what his desires are. The Lord can grant any blessing very easily, but the ones who are truly intelligent will not ask for anything apart from pure devotional service to Him, understanding that all material blessings are temporary in nature.

Srila Prabhupada's purport in this verse is spotless:

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as puruṣottama, or the Supreme Personality. It is He only who can award liberation to the impersonalists by absorbing such aspirants in the brahmajyoti, the bodily rays of the Lord. The brahmajyoti is not separate from the Lord, as the glowing sun ray is not independent of the sun disc. Therefore one who desires to merge into the supreme impersonal brahmajyoti must also worship the Lord by bhakti-yoga, as recommended here in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhakti-yoga is especially stressed here as the means of all perfection. In the previous chapters it has been stated that bhakti-yoga is the ultimate goal of both karma-yoga and jñāna-yoga, and in the same way in this chapter it is emphatically declared that bhakti-yoga is the ultimate goal of the different varieties of worship of the different demigods. Bhakti-yoga, thus being the supreme means of self-realization, is recommended here. Everyone must therefore seriously take up the methods of bhakti-yoga, even though one aspires for material enjoyment or liberation from material bondage.

Akāmaḥ is one who has no material desire. A living being, naturally being the part and parcel of the supreme whole puruṣam pūrṇam, has as his natural function to serve the Supreme Being, just as the parts and parcels of the body, or the limbs of the body, are naturally meant to serve the complete body. Desireless means, therefore, not to be inert like the stone, but to be conscious of one’s actual position and thus desire satisfaction only from the Supreme Lord. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has explained this desirelessness as bhajanīya-parama-puruṣa-sukha-mātra-sva-sukhatvam in his Sandarbha. This means that one should feel happy only by experiencing the happiness of the Supreme Lord. This intuition of the living being is sometimes manifested even during the conditioned stage of a living being in the material world, and such intuition is expressed in the manner of altruism, philanthropy, socialism, communism, etc., by the undeveloped minds of less intelligent persons. In the mundane field, such an outlook of doing good to others in the form of society, community, family, country or humanity is a partial manifestation of the same original feeling in which a pure living entity feels happiness by the happiness of the Supreme Lord. Such superb feelings were exhibited by the damsels of Vrajabhūmi for the happiness of the Lord. The gopīs loved the Lord without any return, and this is the perfect exhibition of the akāmaḥ spirit. Kāma spirit, or the desire for one’s own satisfaction, is fully exhibited in the material world, whereas the spirit of akāmaḥ is fully exhibited in the spiritual world.

Thoughts of becoming one with the Lord, or being merged in the brahmajyoti, can also be exhibitions of kāma spirit if they are desires for one’s own satisfaction to be free from material miseries. A pure devotee does not want liberation so that he may be relieved from the miseries of life. Even without so-called liberation, a pure devotee is an aspirant for the satisfaction of the Lord. Influenced by the kāma spirit, Arjuna declined to fight in the Kurukṣetra battlefield because he wanted to save his relatives for his own satisfaction. But being a pure devotee, he agreed to fight on the instruction of the Lord because he came to his senses and realized that satisfaction of the Lord at the cost of his own satisfaction was his prime duty. Thus he became akāma. That is the perfect stage of a perfect living being.

Udāra-dhīḥ means one who has a broader outlook. People with desires for material enjoyment worship small demigods, and such intelligence is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā (7.20) as hṛta-jñāna, the intelligence of one who has lost his senses. One cannot obtain any result from demigods without getting sanction from the Supreme Lord. Therefore a person with a broader outlook can see that the ultimate authority is the Lord, even for material benefits. Under the circumstances, one with a broader outlook, even with the desire for material enjoyment or for liberation, should take to the worship of the Lord directly. And everyone, whether an akāma or sakāma or mokṣa-kāma, should worship the Lord with great expedience. This implies that bhakti-yoga may be perfectly administered without any mixture of karma and jñāna. As the unmixed sun ray is very forceful and is therefore called tīvra, similarly unmixed bhakti-yoga of hearing, chanting, etc., may be performed by one and all regardless of inner motive."

Knowing the Lord

The Lord doesn't directly get in contact with the material energy, but at the same time, the whole material creation rests on Him. Everything depends on Him, but He doesn't depend on anything, therefore He is the Supreme abode. He is situated in the spiritual sky and never comes in contact with matter, but at the same time, He becomes present through the reflection of His energy as Lord Garbhodakasayi Vishnu and Ksirodakasayi Vishnu, just as the sun reflected on a pot of water and then on the walls of a room.

The infinite Lord can simultaneously permeate all material universes, while the infinitesimal soul can permeate just a single material body. Just as the Lord is present in the material world as a reflection, the pure devotee can see himself also present as a reflection of his original consciousness, reflected in the three divisions of the false ego and permeating the body, senses, and mind.

Due to the contamination of the mind, a conditioned soul has many material desires, which carry the soul from one body to another. The soul can't become desireless at any stage, but when these desires are directed to the service of the Lord, all material desires are automatically dissolved.

Text 3.2.1

sa vedaitat paramam brahma dhāma

yatra viśvam nihitam bhāti śubhram

upāsate puruṣam ye hy akāmās

te śukram etad ativartanti dhīraḥ

He who knows this Supreme Brahman, the abode of the whole material manifestation. He who is wise and pure, who becomes radiant having given up all material desires, worships the Lord in devotion and transcends the ocean of birth and death.

Commentary: In the previous verse it was stated that everyone should worship the Lord, regardless of whether they are free of material desires or not. However, it is not that all will immediately attain the same destination. Everyone who worships the Lord eventually goes back home, back to Godhead, but the ones who approach the Lord with the goal of satisfying material desires take a longer path, while pure devotees who have exhausted their material pursuits can directly achieve the Lord.

In this verse, the Lord is described as the Supreme abode (paramam brahma dhāma). In Him, not only this universe but all material universes are situated (yatra viśvam nihitam). Although the Lord doesn't directly get in contact with the material energy, the whole material creation rests in His energy, and therefore He is the Supreme abode.

In the Bhagavad-gita (9.4), Krsna speaks a mysterious verse:

mayā tatam idam sarvam, jagad avyakta-mūrtinā

mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni, na cāham teṣv avasthitaḥ

"By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them."

Krsna pervades the whole universe as Paramatma, not only entering the hearts of all but being present even inside the atom. At the same time, all beings are in Him, as He showed to Mother Yasoda by opening His mouth and unveiling that the whole universe resides inside His mouth. These two points are consistent with other passages and are easy to understand. However, Krsna adds a third point: despite permeating everything and being the abode of everyone and everything, He says He is not in them.

This point is explained in more detail by Lord Kapila, in the 3rd canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. In verses SB 3.27.11-13, He explains:

"A liberated soul realizes the Absolute Personality of Godhead, who is transcendental and who is manifest as a reflection even in the false ego. He is the support of the material cause and He enters into everything. He is absolute, one without a second, and He is the eyes of the illusory energy. The presence of the Supreme Lord can be realized just as the sun is realized first as a reflection on water, and again as a second reflection on the wall of a room, although the sun itself is situated in the sky. The self-realized soul is thus reflected first in the threefold ego and then in the body, senses and mind."

The Lord is present everywhere in the material creation, even in the false ego, which is the most subtle of all material elements. However, at the same time, it is said that the Lord never touches material nature. Lord Kapila explains this point by using the example of the sun reflected on a pot of water and then on the walls of a room. Prabhupada clarifies it in his purport: "The example given herewith is perfect. The sun is situated in the sky, far, far away from the surface of the earth, but its reflection can be seen in a pot of water in the corner of a room. The room is dark, and the sun is far away in the sky, but the sun’s reflection on the water illuminates the darkness of the room."

Because the sun is so powerful, even the reflection of the sun in a pot of water in the corner of a dark room is sufficiently luminous to be again reflected in the walls of the room and thus illuminate the whole place. The sun thus enters into the room and illuminates it, although it never leaves its position in the sky. Similarly, although the Lord is far, far away, outside the coverings of the universe, he becomes present everywhere by the diffusion of the reflection of His energy.

The Lord is situated in the spiritual sky, and He never comes in contact with the material energy. However, at the same time, He becomes present through the reflection of His energy. In this way, Lord Maha-Vishnu appears as Lord Garbhodakasayi Vishnu and then as Ksirodakasayi Vishnu, and from Him, all avataras are manifested.

This also shows that although present everywhere, Paramatma is just one. Ksirodakasayi Vishnu is like the reflection of the sun in the pot of water. The light of the reflection illuminates the whole room, although all the light comes from a single source. Just like the light coming from the reflection on the pot of water illuminates the whole room, Paramatma permeates all parts of the universe, although, at the same time, living in his own abode in Svetadvipa. The Lord is thus simultaneously all-pervading (being present everywhere) and localized (being present in one place). This may sound like a contradiction but is just another illustration of the transcendental nature of the Lord.

Prabhupada reinforces this point in his purport:

"The word advayam, “without a second,” which is used in this verse, indicates that although the Supreme Personality of Godhead is represented in everything, including the atoms, He is not divided." And then: "In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa it is stated that as the presence of fire is understood by heat and light, so the Supreme Personality of Godhead, although one without a second, is perceived everywhere by the diffusion of His different energies. It is confirmed in the Īśopaniṣad that the presence of the Lord is perceived everywhere by the liberated soul, just as the sunshine and the reflection can be perceived everywhere although the sun is situated far away from the surface of the globe."

These verses also explain the presence of the soul in this material world. The soul is just like the Lord, but small. The Lord is like the sun, and the soul is like a ray of the sun or like a small sun. Sometimes it is also described as the Lord being like the moon and the souls being like stars, conveying the same idea. They are qualitatively one, but quantitatively distinct.

The infinite Lord can simultaneously permeate all material universes, while the infinitesimal soul can permeate just a single material body. Just like the Lord doesn't come in contact with the material energy, the soul also doesn't, although the consciousness of the soul somehow becomes entrapped here. As explained by Lord Kapila, just as the Lord is present in the material world as a reflection, the pure devotee can see himself also present as a reflection. The consciousness of the soul is first reflected in the three divisions of the false ego (in goodness, passion, and ignorance) and from there permeates the body, senses, and mind, just like the sun first reflected in the water and then in the walls. In this way, the big sun permeates all material universes, while the small sun permeates just a particular body, although both are eternally situated in the sky.

In this way, "all beings are in Me, but I am not in them", indicates the Supreme position of the Lord. Everything depends on Him, but He doesn't depend on anything. Everything is part of Him, but He is not part of anything, just the hand is part of the body, but the body is not part of the hand.

Text 3.2.2

kāmān yaḥ kāmayate manyamānaḥ

sa kāmabhir jāyate tatra tatra

paryāpta-kāmasya kṛtātmanas tu

ihaiva sarve pravilīyanti kāmāḥ

When a person desires objects of the senses and meditates on them, he is born on different material planets due to these desires. But those who are self-satisfied, who desire only the Lord, have all their material desires dissolved in this very life.

Commentary: In his purport to SB 3.13.39, Srila Prabhupada mentions:

"The qualification of bhakti, or devotional service to the Lord, is that the devotee should be free from all material contaminations and desires. This freedom is called vairāgya, or renouncement of material desires. One who engages in devotional service to the Lord according to regulative principles is automatically freed from material desires, and in that pure state of mind, one can realize the Personality of Godhead. The Personality of Godhead, being situated in everyone's heart, instructs the devotee regarding pure devotional service so that he may ultimately achieve the association of the Lord."

The soul can't become free from desires at any stage because, in his constitutional position, the soul has desires. The difference is that constitutionally, the soul desires to serve Krsna, while in this material world, we desire illusory material objects. The idea is thus not to become free from all desire, as an impersonalist may aim, but to become free from material desires, desiring only to attain the Lord and serve Him.

The more we let our minds wander in material desires, the stronger the push becomes, and conversely, the more we become fixed on the goal of attaining the Lord, the more such desires slack. Our material experience was started due to free will, and the same free will can bring us back. At every moment we have the choice of serving the Lord by hearing, chanting, remembering, serving His lotus feet, etc., or chasing the dictations of the material mind. Every time we make the right choice, we become closer to the Lord. As this verse indicates, when we become fixed on the idea of attaining the Lord, all material desires gradually vanish. It happens in this very life; we don't even have to wait for a new birth.

On the other hand, if we intentionally maintain material desires while worshiping the Lord, we may attain such desires, but this process will keep us longer in this material world. Demigods are devotees who are on this path. They have the opportunity of gradually ascending while enjoying very high standards of sense gratification, but their path is extremely long. Demigods stay in their posts for the duration of a manvantara (306.72 million years). At the end of this period, they have the opportunity of being elevated to Maharloka, where they can live until the end of the day of Brahma. At this time, if they qualify, they can be elevated to Janaloka, and from there gradually progress to Tapoloka and Satyaloka. In any of these three planetary systems they can live up to the end of the life of Brahma (which is 155.5 trillion years away) and only then have the chance of going together with Brahma back to Godhead.