1. I want all of my disciples to becomes spiritual masters.
2. If you becomes qualified enough, and advanced enough, u become guru automatically.
3. While he was in physical presence, he said I’m yet to see people having advanced enough to become guru, that’s why he appointed 11 Ritika, as he was not convinced of anyone of having advanced enough to become guru.
The main focus is prabhupada wanted disciple to advance in Krishna consciousness. Whether ritvik or non Ritik , has u advance in Krishna consciousness and do u have Krishna in the “grip of your finger” as prabhupada would say…Krishna will come in the grip of finger…if he sees ur sincere efforts….how much have u been successful in bringing Krishna in ur finger grip by the power of your devotion? Then Rithvik not Rithvik doesn’t matter.
As far I see, the non Ritiks are making a fool of themselves by responding to every argument of Ritviks. Also giving non logical arguments, Prabhupada has clearly mentioned if disciple fails to advance, it’s not gurus mistake, it’s disciples own mistake.
The non ritviks should not unnecessarily respond to argument of ritviks, they should focus on Krishna concscious activities, instead of wasting valuable time by reacting/responding.
Rithvik only concern is guru who has made so much disciples, falling down. Even a Rithvik can fall down for that matter, Kali works in his own ways. But that doesn’t mean one will be afraid to become a leader or a guru and guide others just as prabhupada guided.
Ultimately round and round it all comes back to praphupada requesting the members to become serious in Krishna consciousness. Matter resolved if Serious Krishna conscious activity is followed.
Also the word “order” is being exaggerated, as I said before prabhupada didn’t give his direct order at that time because he didn’t find any one fit to take the mantle of guru or his successor.
But as years have gone by we have seen many beautiful Krishna conscious Prabhujis and matajis, successfully leading the community, indifferent capacity.
Good write up, Prabhu. But you are skirting a very basic question - it is a known fact that acaryas fell in late 70s and 80s.
Do you deny it? If you do, then you are just in denial of reality. Kirtananda swami fell even when Prabhupada was alive.
If you accept it, then are you saying that it is ok to accept an acarya despite their shortcomings, simply because they belong to the lineage? If yes, what do you do when your acarya falls? You just choose another and move on?
I’m genuinely curious - I don’t mean to argue. Thank you!
The fact that 10%, or 50%, or 90% of the gurus in a particular institution may fall doesn't change what is mentioned in the sastras. This argument is irrelevant.
Nice article. All your points hold good if Prabhupada had not given instructions to his disciples to continue as ritvik and accept disciples on Prabhupada's behalf. But he has given it as final directive to all TPs and GBCs. And guru mukha padma vakya means to follow it and see the magic happening.
When Prabhupada was on earth, he initiated so many of his disciples without even meeting then physically. How did the relationship between them develop?
Further in the intiations given currently by the "gurus" in ISKCON, we see that the "guru" doesn't even know the name of the disciple, what to speak of developing relationship and correcting him etc. lol
It's high time that we come out of bodily conception of life and realize that we are eternal spirit soul and eternal spiritual master of ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada is also a soul (fully empowered by the Lord). Unless we get this ABCD of spiritual life, all the mental concoctions that we do for fixing the guru system will not help much in our spiritual path. When will we complete the journey of guru discovery and then start the journey of self discovery ???
Maybe you can read the article again. All my points are described there. If you still can't understand, maybe you can just move on to the next website.
How can neophyte devotees who have no idea of what is advanced consciousness be expected to decide who is a pure devotee and who is not? It's like a school tells uneducated children -- Look we don't certify who is a qualified teacher here. U decide and learn from whomever you feel is knowledgeable. Is it not a Joke??
Prabhupada said -
1. I want all of my disciples to becomes spiritual masters.
2. If you becomes qualified enough, and advanced enough, u become guru automatically.
3. While he was in physical presence, he said I’m yet to see people having advanced enough to become guru, that’s why he appointed 11 Ritika, as he was not convinced of anyone of having advanced enough to become guru.
The main focus is prabhupada wanted disciple to advance in Krishna consciousness. Whether ritvik or non Ritik , has u advance in Krishna consciousness and do u have Krishna in the “grip of your finger” as prabhupada would say…Krishna will come in the grip of finger…if he sees ur sincere efforts….how much have u been successful in bringing Krishna in ur finger grip by the power of your devotion? Then Rithvik not Rithvik doesn’t matter.
As far I see, the non Ritiks are making a fool of themselves by responding to every argument of Ritviks. Also giving non logical arguments, Prabhupada has clearly mentioned if disciple fails to advance, it’s not gurus mistake, it’s disciples own mistake.
The non ritviks should not unnecessarily respond to argument of ritviks, they should focus on Krishna concscious activities, instead of wasting valuable time by reacting/responding.
Rithvik only concern is guru who has made so much disciples, falling down. Even a Rithvik can fall down for that matter, Kali works in his own ways. But that doesn’t mean one will be afraid to become a leader or a guru and guide others just as prabhupada guided.
Ultimately round and round it all comes back to praphupada requesting the members to become serious in Krishna consciousness. Matter resolved if Serious Krishna conscious activity is followed.
Also the word “order” is being exaggerated, as I said before prabhupada didn’t give his direct order at that time because he didn’t find any one fit to take the mantle of guru or his successor.
But as years have gone by we have seen many beautiful Krishna conscious Prabhujis and matajis, successfully leading the community, indifferent capacity.
Good write up, Prabhu. But you are skirting a very basic question - it is a known fact that acaryas fell in late 70s and 80s.
Do you deny it? If you do, then you are just in denial of reality. Kirtananda swami fell even when Prabhupada was alive.
If you accept it, then are you saying that it is ok to accept an acarya despite their shortcomings, simply because they belong to the lineage? If yes, what do you do when your acarya falls? You just choose another and move on?
I’m genuinely curious - I don’t mean to argue. Thank you!
The fact that 10%, or 50%, or 90% of the gurus in a particular institution may fall doesn't change what is mentioned in the sastras. This argument is irrelevant.
Dear prabhu,
Nice article. All your points hold good if Prabhupada had not given instructions to his disciples to continue as ritvik and accept disciples on Prabhupada's behalf. But he has given it as final directive to all TPs and GBCs. And guru mukha padma vakya means to follow it and see the magic happening.
When Prabhupada was on earth, he initiated so many of his disciples without even meeting then physically. How did the relationship between them develop?
Further in the intiations given currently by the "gurus" in ISKCON, we see that the "guru" doesn't even know the name of the disciple, what to speak of developing relationship and correcting him etc. lol
It's high time that we come out of bodily conception of life and realize that we are eternal spirit soul and eternal spiritual master of ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada is also a soul (fully empowered by the Lord). Unless we get this ABCD of spiritual life, all the mental concoctions that we do for fixing the guru system will not help much in our spiritual path. When will we complete the journey of guru discovery and then start the journey of self discovery ???
Hare Krishna!
Maybe you can read the article again. All my points are described there. If you still can't understand, maybe you can just move on to the next website.
How can neophyte devotees who have no idea of what is advanced consciousness be expected to decide who is a pure devotee and who is not? It's like a school tells uneducated children -- Look we don't certify who is a qualified teacher here. U decide and learn from whomever you feel is knowledgeable. Is it not a Joke??
What is your idea?
The current self appointed Diksha guru system in ISKCON makes no sense philosophically. It is pure apasiddhanta
You have a right to have you opinion.