We are Always With Kṛṣṇa
We never had any occasion when we were separated from Kṛṣṇa. As soon as the dream is over, the seen disappears, but the seer remains. Now he is in his original position.
« The ‘Fall’ of the Jīva, as Explained by Śrīla Prabhupāda
Chapter 8: A commentary on ‘Crow and Tal-Fruit Logic’
At the beginning of our movement, disciples of Prabhupāda had no doubts about our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa and how the soul ends up in the material world, because the only source of information for them was his books, where the question is explained clearly. However, in the latter half of the 1970s, devotees coming into contact with other ideas transformed this point into a battleground. At some point, Prabhupāda wrote an essay addressed to his disciple, Madhudvisa Prabhu, directly clarifying the topic, which I attempt to explain in detail here.
This is not a very important topic in itself. The difficulty is that when one doesn’t properly understand the explanations Prabhupāda gives, one may end up questioning his teachings as a whole, which can have a very negative influence on one’s spiritual development. This is the main reason I’m taking so much of your time to explain these points here.
When we study this essay in the context of all the other explanations that Prabhupāda gives in the different passages of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the meaning becomes clear. Here is the original text by Prabhupāda, followed by some explanations of the points he makes:
Always With Kṛṣṇa
“We never had any occasion when we were separated from Kṛṣṇa. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position.Our separation from Kṛṣṇa is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Kṛṣṇa desire for sense gratification is there. There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Kṛṣṇa and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently.”
When we dream, we may go to different places and experience many different situations, but in reality, we never leave our bed. Similarly, we go from one body to the other and experience both joy and suffering in this material world, even though we never leave our original position. There is thus never an occasion when we were separated from Kṛṣṇa.
As Lord Kapila explains in his teachings in the Third Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the consciousness of the soul is reflected in matter and then covered by false ego, intelligence, mind, and senses, creating a conditioned identity we call “us”. This material identity created around the reflected consciousness of the soul is the subtle body, which travels from one body to the other in the material world, while the soul itself remains in its original position. Kṛṣṇa mentions this point in the Gītā when He defines the soul as “immovable”. The soul itself never leaves its original position in the spiritual sky; what moves from one body to another is the subtle body, just as one doesn’t leave his bed while dreaming – even though one may experience different dreams – and one doesn’t move from his chair while playing in a computer game.
The word “jīva” in the scriptures is sometimes used to refer to this subtle body, leading to passages mentioning that the “jīva” was never out of the material world, or that the “jīva” doesn’t have love for Kṛṣṇa. In fact, the subtle body is a material creation and was never out of the material sky, nor does it have love of Godhead inside; these are characteristics of the transcendental soul. Currently, we identify with this material identity. The challenge is to again identify with our true nature as eternal servants of Kṛṣṇa, and that’s precisely what we are trying to do through our practice of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.
One good example of this usage is Prabhupāda’s translation and purport to text 4.29.74, where the jīva is described as the combination of the consciousness of the soul with the material mind and senses:
evam pañca-vidham lingam, tri-vṛt ṣoḍaśa vistṛtam
eṣa cetanayā yukto, jīva ity abhidhīyate“The five sense objects, the five sense organs, the five knowledge-acquiring senses and the mind are the sixteen material expansions. These combine with the living entity and are influenced by the three modes of material nature. Thus the existence of the conditioned soul is understood.”
Sometimes, the word “jīva” is used in the sense of ātma, the pure soul in his original, uncontaminated state (śuddha-jīva). However, in most passages, jīva is used in the sense of jīva-bhūta, the conditioned soul struggling with the senses and mind. We can see that here the jīva is described as the combination of the consciousness of the soul with the material mind and senses.
In his purport, Prabhupāda mentions:
“Here it is also explained that the living entity comes in contact with the sixteen material elements and is influenced by the three modes of material nature. The living entity and this combination of elements combine to form what is called jīva-bhūta, the conditioned soul that struggles hard within material nature.”
Prabhupāda uses the words “jīva”, “jīva-ātmā”, and “living entity” almost interchangeably to describe four different ideas in different contexts:
a) The conditioned soul, entrapped in the material reality.
b) The combination of spirit and the subtle body.
c) The particle that transmigrates from one body to another.
d) The pure soul, fully Krsna conscious.
This purport is important to note, because it is one of the few places where Prabhupāda explains this nomenclature. If the word jīva is always taken in the sense of the pure soul, many passages of the scriptures make no sense. Thus, one has to understand by the context if a certain passage speaks about the pure soul, or the soul in the conditioned stage, to avoid misunderstandings.
When Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says “jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya — kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa’” (It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa), for example, He speaks about the pure soul, while when SB 4.29.74 mentions evam pañca-vidham lingam, tri-vṛt ṣoḍaśa vistṛtam, eṣa cetanayā yukto, jīva ity abhidhīyate, it speaks about the conditioned soul. One has thus to understand what is referred to in each passage according to the context to avoid misunderstandings.
The word-for-word given by Prabhupāda to this verse is:
evam — thus; pañca-vidham — the five sense objects; lingam — the subtle body; tri-vṛt — influenced by the three modes; ṣoḍaśa — sixteen; vistṛtam — expanded; eṣaḥ — this; cetanayā — with the living entity; yuktaḥ — combined; jīvaḥ — the conditioned soul; iti — thus; abhidhīyate — is understood.
The text explains that the subtle body (lingam, in the sense of linga-śarīra or sūkṣma-śarīra, including the subtle senses), plus the five sense objects (pañca-vidham), combine with the consciousness of the soul (cetanā), resulting in the jīva (the conditioned soul).
We can see that in the word-for-word, Prabhupāda translates the word cetanayā as “with the living entity”, which one may understand as meaning the soul proper, the spiritual particle. How is that cetanā means the consciousness of the soul?
Prabhupāda explains this in detail in the second half of his purport, interpreting the verse according to the teachings of Lord Kapila in the Third Canto:
“The total material existence is first agitated by the three modes of material nature, and these become the living conditions of the living entity. Thus, the subtle and gross bodies develop, and the ingredients are earth, water, fire, air, sky, and so on. According to Śrī Madhvācārya, when consciousness, the living force in the heart, is agitated by the three modes of material nature, then the subtle body of the living entity, consisting of the mind, the sense objects, the five senses that acquire knowledge, and the five senses for acting in the material condition, becomes possible.”
These are very delicate philosophical principles. Lord Kapila explains that the pure soul doesn’t directly interact with matter. Rather, the consciousness of the soul (cetanā) is reflected in matter, creating the conditions for the appearance of the subtle body. The “jīva” described in the text (clarified as the jīva-bhūta by Prabhupāda in his purport) is thus the combination of this reflected consciousness and the subtle body. The three modes of material nature can’t touch the pure soul, but they can influence the subtle body, making one act through the body and senses. How can this be understood?
The situation of the soul in the material world can be compared to a person seated in the cinema, watching a movie. Even though one doesn’t enter into the movie, this doesn’t prevent one from being emotionally affected by what he sees on the screen, sharing the anxieties of the hero or heroine, crying with them, and so on. At the end of the movie, one is forced to leave the room and join another session, again sharing the happiness and sorrow of the protagonists. In this example, the scenes of the movie are the actions of the senses, conducted by the three modes. The attention of the soul remains imprisoned for a long time. Even though we are free to leave at any moment, this only happens when we are awakened to our real identity by transcendental knowledge, which finally breaks the illusory identification with the gross and subtle bodies, allowing us to become fixed in the service of the Lord.
When this distinction between “jīva” as the pure soul and “jīva” as the subtle body is understood, everything becomes much simpler.
Prabhupāda explains this point in many other passages. Just to give an example, we can consider this passage from Teachings of Lord Caitanya:
“The living entities are factually beyond this covered, inferior energy. They have their pure spiritual existence, their pure identity and their pure mental activities – all beyond the manifestation of this material cosmos. Although the living entity’s mind, intelligence and identity are beyond the range of this material world, when he enters into this material world due to his desire to lord it over matter, his original mind, intelligence and body become covered by the material energy. When he is again free of the covering of this material, inferior energy, he is called liberated. When he is liberated he has no false ego, but his real ego again comes into existence.”
Prabhupāda explains that a dream has two aspects: the seer and the situation being seen. This counters the Māyāvādis, who argue that both the seer and the seem ultimately don’t exist (arguing that in reality we are all one, part of Brahman, and the material creation is false). Prabhupāda, however, argues that we are real, eternal individuals, and just the illusion of seeing ourselves as part of the material creation has to be corrected. When we wake up from the dream, we again see ourselves in our original, awakened position.
Concluding, what does Prabhupāda mean when he says that, “Even with Kṛṣṇa desire for sense gratification is there”? Does it mean there is lust in the spiritual world? Of course not, as he explains in the sentence immediately after: “There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Kṛṣṇa and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently.”
Although there is no lust, material desire, or any other influence of illusion in the spiritual world, there is a dormant nature to enjoy independently from Kṛṣṇa, resultant from the free will that is an integral part of every soul. As Prabhupāda explains: “By misusing his independence, the living entity falls down from the service of the Lord and takes a position in this material world as an enjoyer” (SB 4.28.53). Due to free will, one desires to become an independent enjoyer, and abandoning the association of the Lord, one is captured by illusion. The “fall” is thus due to free will; material contamination comes later.
“At the edge of the beach, sometimes water covers the sand, and sometimes there is dry sand; the ocean is coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately illusion is there; just as when we sleep, a dream is there. We cannot say, therefore, that we are not with Kṛṣṇa.”
We are called the marginal potency of Kṛṣṇa because we can choose between being under the shelter of the internal potency or being covered by illusion. “Marginal” doesn’t mean a geographical location, but the possibility of making a choice, going from one side to the other. As long as we keep ourselves in our original position, we remain protected, but when we reject the service of Kṛṣṇa, we can be easily captured. In this sense, we are “sometimes covered, sometimes free”, due to free will. Being sometimes covered, sometimes free, doesn’t mean, however, that we fall repeatedly in this material world.
Prabhupāda then again evokes the analogy of the dream to make the point that even while covered by ignorance in this material world, we are still with Kṛṣṇa, just like a man asleep doesn’t leave his house or his family, even though, during the dream, he may not be aware of them.
Covered by māyā
“As soon as we try to become the Lord, immediately we’re covered by māyā. Formerly we were with Kṛṣṇa in His lila, or sport. But this covering of māyā may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever conditioned. But this long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.”
How can Māyā capture us? Does she have the power to invade the spiritual world and forcefully drag down the jīvas, taking them away from the service of Kṛṣṇa?
When we hear that we were with Kṛṣṇa in His līlā, we may imagine that we were all gopis or cowherd boys, but that’s not what Prabhupāda is saying. He insists that we were with Kṛṣṇa, in a position of service, but he doesn’t directly try to explain which position that is. This echoes the prayers of Lord Caitanya in the Śrī Śikṣāṣṭakam:
“O son of Maharaja Nanda (Kṛṣṇa), I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet.”
This is also consistent with the teachings of other ācāryas. Even Śrīla Jīva Goswāmī doesn’t try to directly answer this question, limiting himself to offering a few simple explanations that may satisfy one’s curiosity without entering into details. In his Paramātmā Sandarbha (section 46), for example, he states:
tad evam jīvas tad-amsatvät sukṣma-jyoti-rupa ity eke
tathaiva hi kaustubhamśatvena vyanjitam“Some thinkers say that the individual spirit souls are tiny particles of light. It is sometimes said that the individual spirit souls are particles of light from the Supreme Lord’s Kaustubha jewel.”
Here, he doesn’t imply that this is the absolute truth, or that it applies to all, limiting himself to saying “ity eke” (some say), giving it as a possibility for those who are looking for a simple explanation. He thus gives the idea that our eternal constitutional position is one of a personal relationship with the Lord and that we were relating personally with Him, in His personal form, before somehow or other starting our material adventure. Material life thus becomes an opportunity to regain this forgotten relationship, or to deepen it, achieving the position of a direct associate of the Lord in one of his lilas.
This is certainly a much better explanation than the idea of the soul never being out of this material world, or coming from the brahmajyoti or the causal ocean, where there is no service, no understanding of the Lord’s personal form, and no propensity for loving the Lord. Śrīla Prabhupāda explains that the brahmajyoti is an already fallen position (which is proved by the fact that it is an unstable position, from which one can fall back into the material world), and thus it’s not the origin of the soul. We can see that Prabhupāda’s conclusion is in accordance with the teachings of Śrīla Jīva Goswami.
Prabhupāda mentions that although we can remain in conditioned life for an excruciatingly long period of time, when we return to our original position, all of this looks insignificant. How can it be so? This is explained in the next paragraphs.
“In a dream, we may think a very long time is passing, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been only a moment. Another example is how Kṛṣṇa’s friends were kept asleep for one year by Brahmā, but when they woke up and Kṛṣṇa returned, they considered that only a moment had passed.This “dreaming” condition is called non-liberated life. It is just like a dream. Although by material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Kṛṣṇa Consciousness this period is considered a second.”
In the Bṛhad Bhāgavatāmṛta, it is explained that time flows at different paces in different parts of the cosmos. One day in the celestial planets corresponds to one year for us, and what is just a moment in Brahmaloka appears to be thousands of years on Earth. The higher we go, the greater the difference becomes. When we finally reach the spiritual world, one moment can equal an unlimited period of time in the material creation. In the Bṛhad Bhāgavatāmṛta, Gopa Kumāra could see that when Lord Viṣṇu would come as an incarnation, He would be absent for just a fraction of a second in Vaikuṇṭha.
Prabhupāda extrapolates this point to conclude that even though our material conditioning may be practically limitless (to the point that we are called nitya-baddha, or “eternally conditioned”, since it is so long it is not possible to trace the origin), it equals an insignificant span of time in the spiritual world. Therefore, when we return to our original position, it seems just a moment passed, just like we may nod during japa and have a dream that may appear long, while in reality, just a moment passed.
Prabhupāda discusses the point of the word “anādi” being used to describe the conditioning of the soul in his purport to CC Madhya 20.117.
The verse is:
kṛṣṇa bhuli’ sei jīva anādi-bahirmukha
ataeva māyā tāre deya samsāra-duḥkha
Prabhupāda translates it as: “Forgetting Kṛṣṇa, the living entity has been attracted by the external feature from time immemorial. Therefore the illusory energy [māyā] gives him all kinds of misery in his material existence.”
This is consistent with other passages, where Prabhupāda translates the word “anādi” in the context of the conditioning of the soul as “from time immemorial”, revealing the correct understanding. The conditioning of the soul is described as “anādi” in the sense it can’t be traced back, and not literally in the sense of the soul being part of this material world or never being outside of it.
This is more thoroughly explained in his purport:
“When the living entity forgets his constitutional position as an eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, he is immediately entrapped by the illusory, external energy. The living entity is originally part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa and is therefore the superior energy of Kṛṣṇa. He is endowed with inconceivable minute energy that works inconceivably within the body. However, the living entity, forgetting his position, is situated in material energy. The living entity is called the marginal energy because by nature he is spiritual but by forgetfulness he is situated in the material energy. Thus he has the power to live either in the material energy or in the spiritual energy, and for this reason he is called marginal energy. Being in the marginal position, he is sometimes attracted by the external, illusory energy, and this is the beginning of his material life. When he enters the material energy, he is subjected to the threefold time measurement — past, present and future. Past, present and future belong only to the material world; they do not exist in the spiritual world. The living entity is eternal, and he existed before the creation of this material world. Unfortunately he has forgotten his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. The living entity’s forgetfulness is described herein as anādi, which indicates that it has existed since time immemorial. One should understand that due to his desire to enjoy himself in competition with Kṛṣṇa, the living entity comes into material existence.”
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